tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4691620995030959485.post3772657480079099361..comments2023-06-03T02:32:22.738-07:00Comments on Paul's Testing Rants: On Why the "Testers Should Know How to Code" Mantra could Hurt Us AllPaulhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11331245801412369551noreply@blogger.comBlogger14125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4691620995030959485.post-1830168949190838012019-11-21T01:55:35.174-08:002019-11-21T01:55:35.174-08:00Actually I read it yesterday but I had some though...Actually I read it yesterday but I had some thoughts about it and today I wanted to read it again because it is very well written. <a href="https://imada.com/" rel="nofollow">digital force meter</a><br />Jason Marshallhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09659950211085370868noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4691620995030959485.post-80096914810019332102017-09-06T14:39:30.488-07:002017-09-06T14:39:30.488-07:00Thanks for the kind words Dot! 😁Thanks for the kind words Dot! 😁Paulhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11331245801412369551noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4691620995030959485.post-37065257441851714552017-08-25T10:51:57.012-07:002017-08-25T10:51:57.012-07:00Hi Paul,
Thanks - you make a lot of very interest...Hi Paul,<br /><br />Thanks - you make a lot of very interesting points and nicely summarise a lot of discussion (as well as stimulating some more in the comments).<br /><br />We seem to have a tendency (as humans) to try to make everyone the same - "what's good for the goose is good for the gander". But people working in testing have such a great variety of skills and backgrounds - our diversity is our strength. We should celebrate different views and skills, not try to get everyone to have the same skills (however useful to many).<br /><br />Thanks again.<br /><br />Regards, DotDot Grahamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07991717205107510005noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4691620995030959485.post-45608730563546836532017-08-15T21:16:22.793-07:002017-08-15T21:16:22.793-07:00Also, as you stated -
"I think it's usef...Also, as you stated -<br /><br />"I think it's useful to know programming not to the extend of creating programs, but at least understanding how programs work, what are they composed of, what's the process of executing them, what are all of these different type formats. It sounds almost rediculuous to have a web tester that has no knowledge of what is web and how is the client-server communication working."<br /><br />I agree with all of this, however it is possible to get by knowing these at a certain level without necessarily being able to, say, write JavaScript web applications, server-side apps in Python or configure an Apache server. The question is - if we decide that all testers should have some sort of technical knowledge, what sort of level is suitable for someone entering the testing profession?Paulhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11331245801412369551noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4691620995030959485.post-50972559670057429182017-08-15T21:11:14.989-07:002017-08-15T21:11:14.989-07:00Thanks Paul, your article raise some very interest...Thanks Paul, your article raise some very interesting points we should ponder over.Paulhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11331245801412369551noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4691620995030959485.post-49372402210762131732017-08-15T21:10:00.941-07:002017-08-15T21:10:00.941-07:00Thanks. I mention various articles that advocate a...Thanks. I mention various articles that advocate all testers knowing programming from a job-requirement/utility point of view. While I do state that testers benefit from knowing some programming and even computer science, and agree that there is a shift to coded testing, I still come across many manual and exploratory testing roles where knowledge automation plays second fiddle to basic manual testing and analytical skills. Also, even if it were the case that all the manual testing jobs were being turned into automation, I still feel that it is up to the testing community to challenge the view that coding and automation are a panacea to the full range of non-coding skills and perspectives provided by the skilled tester - all of which are important to the success of IT projects.Paulhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11331245801412369551noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4691620995030959485.post-87621809412084737242017-08-15T21:01:33.691-07:002017-08-15T21:01:33.691-07:00Thanks for your comment. For me I see programming ...Thanks for your comment. For me I see programming skill as a specialism that testers can learn if it interests them. I am certainly interested in learning programming. However one of the painful lessons we have all learned in recent years is that ill-considered automation is anything but a saving in human resources but an expensive waste which serves nothing. It is not a panacea for testing and in my opinion is still second fiddle to basic test planning, execution and reporting as well as the analytical and soft skills all testing jobs require. I hope there is a balance that can be achieved.Paulhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11331245801412369551noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4691620995030959485.post-77114610123174516862017-08-15T20:53:13.437-07:002017-08-15T20:53:13.437-07:00Thanks, glad you liked it!Thanks, glad you liked it!Paulhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11331245801412369551noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4691620995030959485.post-23847844548773228252017-08-15T15:29:11.244-07:002017-08-15T15:29:11.244-07:00Thanks and apologies GLMeece, I've now correct...Thanks and apologies GLMeece, I've now corrected the spelling.Paulhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11331245801412369551noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4691620995030959485.post-58712792717622491772017-08-15T10:05:46.714-07:002017-08-15T10:05:46.714-07:00BTW, it's "Elisabeth" Hendrickson no...BTW, it's "Eli<b>s</b>abeth" Hendrickson not "Eli<b>z</b>abeth". Disclosure: I'm a former co-worker of hers.GLMeecehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01382917297288591420noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4691620995030959485.post-55274263249305543792017-08-13T05:43:17.507-07:002017-08-13T05:43:17.507-07:00Hello, Paul!
Great article, first of all and thank...Hello, Paul!<br />Great article, first of all and thanks for getting all these sources and opinions toghether. <br />Here's what I think. <br />If testers are afraid of the steep learning curve that programming, in particular - new frameworks, technologies, tools, patterns etc. offers, they are on the wrong track. Testing is constant learning, if one is afraid of learning, or afraid of complexity, he/she picked a wrong proffesion. <br />As for programming skills, I think they are useful. <br />As for the current state of testing - I think it's useful to know programming not to the extend of creating programs, but at least understanding how programs work, what are they composed of, what's the process of executing them, what are all of these different type formats. It sounds almost rediculuous to have a web tester that has no knowledge of what is web and how is the client-server communication working. <br />As for the future state of testing, like it or not testing craft is shifting from "just testing" to "coded testing", if this is right or not, or whether we like it or not is a matter of another discussion, the fact is - it's happening. So, if we want to even "sit on the discussion table" and share our oppinion on that question and be credible, we have to be able to create testing programs and be able to advocate why they can or can not perform testign that's satisfactory for our client's needs. <br /><br />Best regards, <br />Mr. SlavchevAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16076323920396169462noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4691620995030959485.post-32803216515676908412017-08-12T12:02:50.776-07:002017-08-12T12:02:50.776-07:00Excellently balanced piece which elegantly describ...Excellently balanced piece which elegantly describes the objections I have to being forced into some area I have no desire to visit. Not coding does not mean non-technical. Well done Ady_Stokeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03553117404102212909noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4691620995030959485.post-5510588375311749232017-08-12T08:54:18.034-07:002017-08-12T08:54:18.034-07:00For me this is a question of balance of skills and...For me this is a question of balance of skills and work focus. I've always been a "Technical Tester" type and that is because of my educational background in the Natural Sciences (Zoology). As part of my college studies I did take CS classes in programming, and that was because I wanted to combine the two things. I was also lucky to have programming classes in High School, so that had some influence on me as well. I started off as a programmer, but got into testing because of circumstances at that time. It wasn't because I was a bad programmer, I was decent and wrote solid code. But I had a knack for Testing and saw it as a niche that I could excel in that time (1988), and a few years later (1992) automation was added to my skill set. Again, another niche area that I could capitalize on. But I've always tried to balance the two, testing and programming, via my work with automation. I've always seen it as a tool to aid in testing and not as a replacement for human testers.<br /><br />What I've seen over the last 5-10 years is this desire to fully swing the pendulum to one side, automation and programming, and force the testing work/world out of balance. The desire to "automate" the human testers work, much like automation in manufacturing, with a "robot" (computer) has caused a lot of headaches and confusion. This is in large part to reduce/eliminate the cost of human resources for the testing work. It's starting to look like the Star Trek (TOS) episode called the "The Ultimate Computer", and testers are becoming "Captain Dunsel" (Dunsel - a part which serves no useful purpose). <br /><br />This is partly due to the heavy push to implement the Test Automation Pyramid philosophy on projects and thus a shift in focus and skills has occurred. But it has been such a hurried and frantic push/move that it has created its own problems. Thus the discussion we are now in. My point is this, we need to find the balance again. Get things back to a state of equilibrium. How we do that is what is key.<br /><br /><br />Jim HazenCalkelpdiverhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14278143481367031063noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4691620995030959485.post-30206394771484177912017-08-11T15:39:09.819-07:002017-08-11T15:39:09.819-07:00Why are we still "debating" this?
https...Why are we still "debating" this?<br /><br />https://gerrardconsulting.com/blog/the-testers-and-coding-debate-can-we-move-on-now/<br /><br />Standing by the above. Paul.Paul Gerrardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14363831037426931243noreply@blogger.com